Jake, I agree with you 100%, and I make the same statement very frequently to my friends, neighbors and family - that box should just be a tool, nothing more and nothing less, and it should be treated in that way and subject to the same expectations.

I generally follow that up with a few hypothetical questions - for example, "if your TV/VCR/Refrigerator/Whatever behaved the way your (Windows-based) computer does, would you just quietly tolerate it? Not in the way of the funny jokes about if cars were made like Windows, but seriously. If it shut off unexpectedly, or behaved in any of the other unexpected ways of Windows, would you just accept it quietly? I recently had exactly that experience, I bought a new DVD/VCR recorder, and every time I turned it off, I had to unplug it and plug it back in again or it wouldn't play correctly the next time I turned it on. Of course I didn't accept that, I took it back for replacement, and I don't think anyone else would have accepted it either.

What we have to do is convince people that this standard needs to be applied to their computers as well. These are not mysterious black boxes that are too complex for ordinary mortals to understand. They are tools, and they should work properly.

jw 25?8?2008

Updated by J.A. Watson on Aug 26, 2008 8:23 AM

I am guilty of that....for me, I am amazed at how the damn things work at all...so the computer is beyond a tool for me, I guess it s a kind of lifestyle.

What do you guys think of kbuntu linux kd rmx 4 . I m toying with the idea of running it as an executable within windows XP.

Posted by roger andre on Aug 25, 2008 10:20 PM

I know what you mean, but that is exactly the attitude that we have to struggle against. It shouldn't matter to us, as consumers, whether PCs are relatively complex devices or not, they are being sold as consumer products, so they should be treated that way, and expected to work properly. We should not be forced to accept the "worst common denominator", but as long as the vast majority of consumers do so the situation will not change because it is not in Microsoft's economic interest to change it.

I have not personally run Kubuntu (or any other Linux) under Windows, so I don't have much to say about that. I do run Kubuntu native (in fact that is what I am typing this on), and it is just fine. I would say give it a try, see how you like it, you don't have anything to lose. But if you decide that you do like it, then seriously consider setting up a separate partition to run it native. The cost isn't that high, the gains in security and stability are likely to be significant. You can still keep a partition with Windows loaded for the times when you really have to use Windows, but you're likely to be surprised how seldom that is - I have been.

jw

Updated by J.A. Watson on Aug 26, 2008 1:05 PM

Thank you for the comments, and yes, that is important not to lose sight of the fact that windows is a consumer product.

I still come across domestic machines with GBs of junk files and cookies that never expire, not to mention registry errors.

Are the hardware vendors really helping ? Many rigs seem to be issued with inapropriate drivers and much unecesary software.

I have heard rumors suggesting that when windows runs on a mac, it is very stable.

The kbuntu linux was great running as an app through windows. It picked up the drivers very nicely. Will it still be able to pick up the drivers that I have extracted on to external media if I take the the plunge and run it natively?

Updated by roger andre on Aug 26, 2008 3:27 PM

I think the biggest problem of all is the perception of complexity rather than it's actuality.

A modern car is vastly more complex that a modern PC, but people have grown up over decades tinkering with old bangers (or their parents did). The same with radios etc. All of these started out in the mind of the general public as simple devices they believed thay understood. Therefore they (wrongly probably) still believe they understand them. This gives people the confidence to be critically demanding.

Computer technology reached the general public by a diametrically opposite route. People became aware of them as huge fearsome devices only understood by dour white-coated technicians. When told that occasional crashes are 'normal' they feel they have no means to challenge this statement, so myths are built up.

I think the good news is that at last there seems to be signs of a kick back. People are beginning to think (possibly wrongly) they understand computers, and are becoming more demanding.

P.S. 'people' not 'consumers' please. I've never attempted to consume a computer and don't recommend attempting it!

Updated by Tezzer on Aug 27, 2008 8:18 AM

For my tuppence worth, I think that by their nature computers are incredibly complex. But it serves to hide this complexity from the user. The user uses the computer for a specific task, and doesn't need to know about recompiling kernels, linked libraries, setting the font size in IE etc. I guess this forms the foundation of the "task orientated" approach.

btw Roger, I'll be installing Ubuntu on a Windows XP machine soon, will let you know how it goes!

Updated by Jake Rayson on Sep 2, 2008 1:41 PM

I agree that they are internally complex, but the task of the operating system is to tame that complexity and make it simple and reliable for the user, rather than to use it as an excuse for system crashes, high priced bug fixes (masquerading as "new releases") and such.

You could say the same about an automobile, couldn't you? In the 1970's I used to disassemble an auto engine completely, down to its smallest parts, and put it back together again; today they have become so complex that I literally can't even give one a tune-up. But what has not changed is that I expect it to work, properly and reliably, every day.

Repeat above for televisions, DVD recorder/players, or whatever item of your choice. The only one we quietly accept misbehavior from is the home computer, and that has to stop.

jw 2/9/2008

Posted by J.A. Watson on Sep 2, 2008 1:28 PM