Software application development
This blog is intended to provoke discussion and exchange between like minded software application developers, engineers, architects, project managers - and keen hobbyists too.
Monday 8 December 2008, 1:00 PM
Can code crunchers be GUI gurus too?
Having recently worked with Sun to provide a surface-level overview of its Java training facilities, a resource caught my eye this week that was labeled as 'A community site for Java developers' - nothing new there then. But here’s the thing…
Put about (sorry, ‘constructed’) by US/Euro open source BI player Actuate, looking at this site got me thinking about the so-called ‘void’ that some vendors argue exists between those individuals focused on hard core coding mechanics and those developers with a more GUI-centric view of the world.
Are special tools needed to encourage hard-code focused developers to be more involved with visual look and feel? Well, of course they can help – otherwise the Windows Presentation Foundation would never have seen the light of day would it?
But can this theorising towards graphical presentation be carried across to the world of business reporting tools as Actuate would have us believe – well, one would hope so if they have offices several major world markets (with the notable exception of Brazil and India).
Actuate’s resource (as I rather loosely called it above) is actually known as the BIRT Exchange and is run by a team of the company’s employees. The Eclipse BIRT (Business Intelligence and Reporting Tools) open source project is, apparently, “The only top-level Eclipse Foundation project dedicated to Business Intelligence.” It features, “The e.Spreadsheet product line that brings Excel spreadsheets to the web and Java.”
But is this all just vendor-fueled gloss? The vast majority of developers surely have a broad enough spectrum of abilities to work on back room mechanics and still embrace an appreciation for the GUI and front-end functionality in general. Again I ask, if there aren’t enough USPs to sell a product in terms of its basic function – are we seeing a new (not that new actually) breed of vendors who are basically just trying to capitalise on the dashboards and dials that an MD or even a not-too-techy CTO will be able to appreciate?
I actually last mentioned this company on ZDNet.co.uk over a year ago and (as far as I can see) they haven’t been making as many headlines here in the UK as they have in the US since that time.
It’s a popular theme though. As of today can you read news from Adobe announcing that the company is working with an outfit called SpringSource to “simplify” the development of Java enterprise-class rich Internet applications (RIAs). Heck, one of Adobe’s new partner announcements (or was it an acquisition?) last year was a company called Effective UI – again, it’s all about the front end.
NB: actually, Adobe would probably argue that it’s actually all about the back-end and collaboration with the Flash “Platform”… but you get the point. What goes up into the technology stack must come down in the GUI.
Anyway – I’m not trying to reach a resolution or some kind, or even a definitive argument for that matter. I’m merely looking to debate the subject. Once again, I know there is breadth enough for core code crunching skills to exist alongside GUI grandeur. So, what do you reckon?
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I'm surprised to here of this gulf Adrian, I thought there would have been people out there who would have been proud to cross all bridges.
Not a subject I know anything about really, but I'm gathering the people who must be able to almost think like code then hand it over to others to put bells and whistles on.
Is this anything to do with a future some of us envisage where the computer will take over core coding and we'll be stuck with the GUI ?
Core coders bridging the gap to provide the user interface, sure this happens, question is should it?
There are so many widgets out there in 3rd party componentland that make the development of a user interface far easier for the application developer. Some grids are almost applications in there own right. They are incredibly functional, offer more features that shaken sticks speak of, yet is all the functionality needed or is just user interface prada?
The user interface is of course important, and the features can make your product stand out in the marketplace, but the one thing that seems to be left at the back of the queue is User Interoperation.
Not so much the user interface, but how your user uses your application. When you are coding the latest wizzy, you thing the user will use it in the way you use it, but you have the upper hand here, because you wrote it, the user didn't and may puzzle away and see only a fraction of the features you have slaved to provide because discoverability is poor and the interaction for the user is costly.
Anyone who remembers the name Alan Cooper, (all may now kneel!) as the father of VB, Alan has written a number of books on user interface design, and even has a company that specializes in user interaction. Their periodic mailer is masterclass, if how your users interact with your software is of interest.
For me, this is tantamount. For years I drooled over the latest wizz from DeveloperExpress or Infragistics (then Sheriden) and couldn't wait to get it into my application, only to be deflated when demonstrating to the user, and they didn't get it. The component wasn't at fault, it was my implementation and how I had gone about making use of the tools provided.
So, great UI design is important, but how the user actually uses, is even more so. So, core coders can probably provide the coding skills to create great looking interfaces, but only if they have the interpersonal skills to work with their users will those interfaces be refined and actually beneficial.
Wow 64Bitz,
That's the affirmation and comment I was looking for. You made my day, my week even.
I wasn't sure about this subject being one that would get people fired up or not. But I see it repeatedly worked in from vendors and I just thought - well, this has to be an issue.
User interface Prada? User Interoperation? Those should be in the freakin OED mate. Spot on. Possibly this is why some publishers make so much out of the whole "missing manual" and "for dummies" series... it's easy to use the app if you built it, but not so much so as an external user.
It's kind of like a Dilbert sketch where a coder looks at a bemused user and says: "Why don't you like my application? I built it - therefore it rocks. Therefore there must be something wrong with your brain."
All hail Geoff king of user interface appreciation and comprehension - thanks mate.
Rog - as you can see, I was testing the water with this one. Void was a strong word to use... well, whatever. Thanks to you both guys.
Adrian in Snowy Frozen Maryland USA
I think the best code crunchers are probably the worst GUI designers and vice-versa. The mental skills required are almost complete opposites. Furthermore I think any attempt to try to teach coders to become GUIers will only dilute their best abilities.
If you are deeply involved in a project it is virtually impossible to unlearn all you know about it and see it from a novices viewpoint. I used to have some contact with a technical author, and the first thing he ever wanted to do was play with a device, and NOT be told all about it, but just have questions answered as he asked them. His manuals were first class.
Also, I can't help wondering if the wrong question is being asked. Software users are creatures of habit, so whether an interface is good or bad comes second to whether it is consistent. This is something Acorn understood, and Apple seems to, but Microsoft (judging by their recent behavior) has little concept of, and Linux has barely begun to get to grips with.
There seems to be an incredible amount of wheel-reinventing going on, and to make matters worse the wheels all have slightly different diameters, widths and spindles. So far, all the attempts I've seen to unify this, simply create yet another layer of widgets that only a few vendors support and even fewer users understand.
Thanks Tezza - you said, "the best code crunchers are probably the worst GUI designers and vice-versa..."
... and that's where I was kind of thinking.
Especially as the course I attended for Sun basic Java training had two chaps from Deloitte along who were, I suspect, interested in guts firstly... and form as somewhat more of an afterthought.
Your last para on wheel-reinventing very much sums up what I was trying to say. There are endless new front-end skins, dashboards and GUI solutions that are, essentially, quite cosmetic... but you also make the point that cosmetic consistency is what we do actually need - or cosmetic intuitiveness (if that makes any sense)...
Not to dumb it down too much - but I like silly digital watches with lots of extra functions like altimeters etc... I know I'm going to lose the manual, so I want to play with it first and find out how it works without having to read the instructions... so I like the "play with it and NOT be told about it" concept too.
Thanks again for your reply
Adrian
Hey yes, it is nice to have an interface that you can get stuck into without having to read manuals, intuitive as it were. The kind of stuff that allows you to be at one or "zen" with whatever your goal or task is.
It is also nice to have a manual there hopefully to surprise me a little when I thought I knew it all, even if it's only to tell me there's hardware I can get to turn singing or whistling into any instrument or sample I want!
Hey Rog,
I'm still reading O'Reilly Mac OS Leopard mini guide this week.
Wow - opening files in preview mode just but hitting spacebar! That's neat! Super fast too.
Seriously, getting under the GUI skin in an exponential curve isn't it?
Adrian
Could be. But with humans involved you could also throw chaos theory into the equation, things happening by chance. For instance, would I have ever got under the skin of the GUI if windows had never freaked out on me? Guess I'll never know!
Ah the joys of blogging -
If only to get a reply from your good self with the words: "chaos theory", "Windows" and "freaked out" used in that order.
Adrian
Ha Ha yes...classic. Almost headline material, although to be fair I have faith that windows is at last maturing quite nicely. I do think MS should acknowledge XP as being in its golden years instead of brutally trying to kill it off. Aged it may be but it remains theeee performance OS of choice, so let it pass on with dignity I say.
Oh how the Mac fraternity love to kick Microsoft. The so short memories of Bill digging into the coffers some years ago to keep Apple alive are ringing in my ears.
An Apple so destraught, it begged Microsoft to support the Macintosh with Microsoft Office for another 4 years.
Yet now, Microsoft is the boy in the playground who is slapped around by those it has helped in the past. Apple is more of an Amstrad now, (not the B&O it thinks it is) with it's consumer electronics. The Macintosh is just another product. The Apple Washing machine (iWash? or uWash?) will be out next summer, I am sure.
Careful of the revolution people, it has a habit of coming right back at ya!
Apple users should leave Microsoft alone, for if it wasn't for them, all the iJunk around these days would have a very different logo on them.
I will have you know gentlemen that I do own a beloved MacBook Pro, but my PowerBook G4 just stuck it's head up its jaxey and died. Kaput, no warning. Just stone dead after 5 years. I think I need a new hard drive huh?
Us Maccers do appreciate MS though you know. I have in my possession a shiny new copy of Mac Office 2008 (ok it took them 4 years to update from the last release) and it rocks like a big rocky thing.
It's a marriage made in heaven. Superb software sat on a beautiful device. What's to complain about?
Apple is an Amstrad? Come on now... that's like saying an IBM AS/400 is a bit like a Speak & Spell.
I'm out of my Apple honeymoon where I was literally bouncing around the room for days over the joy of using a machine that never crashes. I'm opening up to Linux on an Acer Aspire... and I'm even considering the dead Mac (may he rest in peace) with a PC laptop as they are so dirt cheap.
With that in mind - must nip out to Best Buy.
Laters
Yes I remember microsoft helping out apple, That was in 98 wasn't it?
I think both PC and Mac platforms have become very similar in the hardware stakes of late.
Yes I think the microsoft bashing is unfair lately, you only have to look at windows live to see how MS are changing and really giving something back to people, not to mention the blind eye they turn to windows piracy in the third world.
Also for some reason I can't fathom, I'm feeling very secure on the MS servers of late.
This comment has been deleted at the users request
OK OK - But please, have you seen Hotmail's "Ooooh I want to look and feel like Gmail approach" recently? It's horrible.
Isn't it?
This comment has been deleted at the users request
Ah yes but that's a work still very much in progress, and changing quite frequently. Now when oyu sign up for hotmail you can have an @live address instead. And hey, 25gb of free storage is pretty generous me thinks.
Hey Adrian,
Years ago, there used to be the AppleCentres. They were all over the UK and I think the US and you could walk into one and you could have been in any AppleCentre anywhere in the world. The styling was done by Bang & Olufsen and it gave them all a similar feel, even though the AppleCentres were all different companies.
Now, I say Apple is an Amstrad of old but kind of reversed, because Amstrad starting out by making radios, Videos and eventually computers. Apple started out selling computers and now sells consumer electronics items, phones, music devices etc. Your just getting nowty because I said Amstrad, had I said a different company, would that have caused a comment? :).
As far as the comment about a machine that doesn't crash, well I remember the mac with it's system 6 and 7 System Error ID=0 message, and frequent jumps into Macsbug.
Considering now their OS is built around Unix, it probably does crash, it process just gets respawned so you fail to notice. Along with the reality distortion field that comes free with every Macintosh to totally enthrall the user into thinking that this is the best computer ever and I must buy all things Apple, they must be onto a complete winner, if it does actually never ever crash.
.
This comment has been deleted at the users request
Well Geoff -
I have to agree and enthuse and also comment back in various other directions.
Y'know - as I sat there at the "Genius Bar" in Annapolis last night I was thinking about the inherent extra complexity that does now exist by virtue of Mac's UNIX parentage.... and you're right.
I also saw the glossy BOSE layout designed to subsume the average user (which I hope I am not) into happy numbness.
BUT! - helped by a certain Dan Cheuvront (his business card says Genius) I got this:
1. nearly two hours of free tech support even though I had bought that unit in Australia (hence, not from that store).
2. a free upgrade to Tiger (well, it couldn't handle Leopard and Panther is just so last week)
3. free updates and installs and stuff and stuff
Now, try walking into PC World and getting that right? You're more likely to get some spotty teenager trying to sell you a new scanner.
So yay for the Apple store in Annapolis. Yay for your sober comments that have quelled my hysteria to the requisite level.... and finally, yay for blogs and informed (I hope) discussion around this and similar topics.
I will just add.....If you buy a PC try to stay away from PC world. They told a friend of mine that he couldn't have a free XP license when he bought a vista business machine, which of course was totally wrong.
There are many excellent indipendent PC stores such as PCs PCs here in Glastonbury, that will give you a touch of the personal service so lacking in the PC worlds and comets around the country.
With a PC you could be running a machine that is eight years old and running at 3.2ghz (Pentium 4) fully up to date with the latest offices, browsers, media players etc.
Apart from that there is much you can get free from the microsoft download centre, such as all the undersung powertoys, as well as the sysinternals diagnostic and networking tools.
A recommendation at the moment is a powertoy app called synctoy 2
a superb file and folder sync tool.
Now I see an era on the horizon with snow leapord and windows 7 showing us that these two OSs are reaching a nice point of maturity.
The User Interface needs to work well, be consistent and should not require re-training the user between versions. Microsoft stupidly thinks it can do no wrong with the UI. Vista is the result. I just had the worst computing experience I've had in 30 years thanks to Vista.
Yes I agree that Linux programmers likewise need to get a grip on the UI. Joe SixPack isn't going to give a hoot what the underlying OS is as long as he can push a button and have it work like he expects it to.
