Jamie's Random Musings
Various thoughts and adventures, including but not limited to Linux, Windows XP and Widows Vista, and assorted bits of hardware new and old.
Thursday 26 March 2009, 11:09 AM
What Do We Expect from Netbooks?
On one hand, a lot of people seem to expect them to be essentially the same as ordinary laptops. The most typical thing in this category are expectations (or demands) for complete Office Suites, media players and the like.
On the other hand, there seems to be a lot of work going into "dumbing-down" of netbooks, giving them special user interfaces, making everything proportionally larger on the screen and "simpler" to use. The Ubuntu Netbook Remix is one example of this, but there are plenty of others. Some seemed to be designed to compensate for the limited capacity of the netbook hardware, while others seem more aimed at the limited capacity of the typical netbook user.
I've had an HP 2133 Mini-Note for a few weeks now, and I think that both of these things miss the mark. Now, this has to be qualified with the fact that I have never tried any other netbook, and in particular I have never tried one with an Intel Atom CPU (the Mini-Note has a VIA C-7M CPU), but that is one of the reasons I am posting this for discussion. I'm interested in BOTH expectations and experiences.
In my experience with the Mini-Note, the major limiting factor is the size. Period. Not the processor, not the memory, not the disk space, only the size. It has a small screen (8.9"), and a small keyboard, although it is supposed to be one of the best keyboards in this category. The screen is small enough that you have to make some compensation in the size of fonts and icons - how much depends on how good your eyesight is. But in any case, I wouldn't want to do much Text/Spreadsheet/Presentation work on it, there just isn't enough screen space to work comfortably. I probably wouldn't want to watch a lot of videos, movies, or TV on the small screen either. Likewise, I wouldn't want to have to do a lot of typing for an extended time on the keyboard. I'm a good, fast, 10-finger typist, and I've seen a lot of keyboards over the years; the Mini-Note keyboard is quite good, for its size, but it is still error-prone, and the basic key design and feedback are not all that good. Finally, the small size limits the number and type of external connections it can have. At least HP was good enough to put a normal sub-D external monitor connection on it. But if you need to connect a lot of stuff, or you need/want a docking station, you're probably not going to be happy with a netbook.
On the other hand, the Mini-Note is small, it's not brain damaged. It doesn't need a special version of Linux (or Windows) that has lots of stuff ripped out in the interest of saving space, memory or processing power. Mine is currently loaded with Ubuntu, SuSE, Fedora, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS and Windows XP Professional (although I honestly can't remember the last time I booted Windows on it). All of those run and perform perfectly well on it; in fact, the only thing I have ever seen that didn't run acceptably on it was Vista (big surprise). So in my opinion, if I load a "stripped" operating system, I don't gain much, if anything, and I get a lot of unpleasant surprises when I go looking for something and it isn't there. One good example is the Office software I mentioned above. I don't want to work all day with OpenOffice on my netbook - but if someone sends me an email with a document, spreadsheet, or presentation attached, I want to be able to open it.
What do others think? If you currently have a netbook, how do you use it, and how happy are you with it? What do you find it particularly good or bad at? If you have considered one, but decided against it, why? What was missing or wrong in your opinion? What could be added or changed to make it fit your needs?
My personal experience can be summarized very easily. For what it cost, my Mini-Note is fantastic. I don't see how I could be much happier with it. I use it every day during my commute on the bus and train, and I use it at home so that I am not tied to my desk, I can sit in the living room, in the garden, or wherever, and still get to my email, web searches, pictures and documents. It cost something like 15% of what my Lifebook S6510 did, and I certainly get something like 75% of the use out of it. There are still things that I need/want a "real" laptop for, so I wouldn't want a netbook to be my only computer. Yet.
jw 26/3/2009
PreviousComments on this post
Thank you very much for all your postings on your mini-note experiences. I also have a mini-note (1024*600 version) and I am very happy with it. I was able to pick it up for a very cheap price.
I use it with ubuntu 8.10 and windows XP in dual-boot. Now I have windows XP on my netebook I completely removed windows on my fixed machine. The only time I use Windows is to print photos @ my canon Pixma 5000 printer on canon photo paper pro, skype video calls with the HP (in ubuntu, the internal mic is not working), and connect to office exchange outlook (only works in internet explorer).
Installation of ubuntu was rather difficult because of the internal via video-chip. I had to downgrade the firmware, and follow a manual, but finally everything was up and running. I am using the 2D-driver not the 3D-driver. Tip: use the left alt-key to move windows.
I use my netbook to enjoy internet and read my mails when I travel (in combination with a samsung omnia and UMTS). I use it to upload, watch and backup my photos on holidays (with F-spot use the up-and-down keys to browse pictures). I also watch movies on it.
Favorite software for my mininote:
Internet: firefox, opera
mail: thunderbird
hugin: panorama stitcher
Pan: newsreader
Photos: F-spot, picasa and GIMP
Office: Openoffice
I have no experience with other netbooks but the distribution Intel Moblin http://moblin.org/ sounds very promising and only works on Intel hardware.
Summary:
+ beatiful design, the nicest of all netbooks available
+ good build quality
+ sound quality of internal speakers is amazingly excellent!
+ excellent price compared with atom netbooks
- battery life is mediocre with 3-cell battery
- performance of via single-core processor is so-so (esp. youtube video's full-screen and skype video calls)
- via chrome videochip not well-supported in linux
- very thick powercord (Asus EEE powercord is much thinner)
All in all I am very happy with my purchase.
I use my Acer One as a portable tool kit, a book of resources, research items, and texts of various command lines and recovery console commands that I might otherwise not remember.
I'm running XP on this, so after stripping it down to the bare bones and killing off the drive indexing, it will happily stream video from the likes of youtube and the BBC i player.
It also runs the superb and free audio visualiser twisted pixel, a plugin for WMP and a very handy way of running milkdrop colour scripts without having to install winamp.
Oh yes sometimes I surf online with it. I have yet to install an office application. When I do, I imagine that I will turn to open office again.
I find the atom 1.6ghz very capable when running on a debloated XP install.
One more point to add. I have a couple of friends who claim to have read that defragmenting a solid state drive is a very dangerous thing to do, because of the limited life cycle of the SSD. They also claim that being in a fragmented state makes little or no difference to read and write access times. I would love to be told that this is wrong, but if it is correct then people need to be warned, and it's really not on to ship XP on netbooks with defragmentation enabled!
Roger - thanks for the comments. It sounds like you are using your netbook for pretty much the same thing I am. I strongly believe that is what they are ideally suited for.
I had not heard the SSD information that you mention, but it makes perfect sense. Flash memory certainly does have a limited number of read/write cycles, and although that number might be quite large, it is not impossible to reach. Disk defrag obviously does a heck of a lot of reading and writing... I suppose the relevant questions would be, how much does it typically do and how often is it run? On the other hand, those numbers would have to be balanced against the expected life of a netbook, which I am guessing is going to be somewhat less than a "typical" notebook, and a lot less than a desktop system. It is definitely worth some more investigation.
Disk fragmentation certainly is less serious in terms of performance on an SSD than mechanical disk drives, because you don't have to wait while the heads seek all over creation for the various fragments of a file. But I would guess that there is still going to be some loss of storage space and efficiency.
Thanks again.
jw
I've had an EeePC -SSD vwersion - for about a month now. I straight away installed easypeasy, but then killed the default desktop and installed ROX + openbox.
I have wine installed so I can run a number of PLC programming applications. Natively I run gtkterm (a sane serial port terminal), the arudino programming application - great little processor boards - openoffice for on-site document writing/updating.
I don't use the wireless feature at all, nor the webcam, but am always near a 'real' network when I need internet access browsing via firefox of course.
I've also got some music, and family photos on board for my own amusement and for scaring photo-victims with :)
I like this netbook for its extreme portability, very solid feel and long battery life.
A side benefit is that running even windows software has totally silenced an uniformed and irritating anti-linux person in the office who's argument was that it had no practical use in 'the real world' (tm)
Good stuff, thanks Tezzer. How much speed benefit do you notice from the SSD, on boot and in normal use?
jw
I bought the original Asus EEE Pc 701 4G when it first came out (due to it being a market/game changer) - runs XP 800x600 with scrolling display)
My main laptop is a 1.4 ULV Centrino Toshiba M100 (upgraded with 160GB HD, 2GB Ram, Optiarc AD-7633 Slot-loading DVD writer)
I find the Toshiba to be the perfect machine for me, 4 years after it came out (well upgraded admittedly) - running XP Pro/Ubuntu 8.10 dual boot.
What I like.
Manganese-allow case - rock solid, though does stratch.
Strong alloy casing means the keyboard can go right to the edge of the base - a key factor I'd look for in Netbook. (Around 4mm each size) - allowing for the largest possible keyboard - it doesn't grow tiresome.
Very good matte screen 12.1' 4x3 Display, 1024x768 - (600 Pixels just isn't enough vertical resolution)
Extended Battery (replaces dvd). Easily replaceable Batteries.
External Physical Wireless Switch, Rotatory volume control - both very useful.
Easy availability of parts.
No worth much - so don't have to worry about it.
Very quiet, fan rarely on - always cool to touch, due to a ULV Dothan Processor, not too heavy.
Lid catch keeps it closed.
Would prefer a trackpad, rather than a nipple but you get used to it.
What I'd want before I buy a new netbook / upgrade.
The usuals - but additonally
Gigabit Network Adapter
ESATA or USB 3.0
HDMI Output
Dual Core Atom
Nvidia Graphics Chip.
Built in 3G
6 Cell Battery
'Standard' Mini-usb charger (to match new phone std)
10-12'' Display (with a 1280x800 res)
Keyboard as large as possible.
OS X Option. (Why can't Apple release a version of OSX that can run on a selection of Atom based Netbooks only (I mean a legit version)- it woud sell like hot cakes - and wouldn't undermine - only enhance their business model.
If Apple did the above for £350-450, the new 'jesus' netbook.
I also use another Toshiba M100 to stream via bluetooth to Apple HIFI Speaker System (with a insignia bluetooth adapter) - as a media system. Which just sits in our livng room.
Sideline:It is possible to build a netbook cluster? i.e under Ubuntu, so that several small netbooks appear as a single server - I presume it is.
@ J.A.
I can't make a sensible comparison speed wise. I don't have a comparable machine to compare against. I will say it knocks the socks off 4 year old bog standard laptops. Boot up time is also faster than most of the desktops in the office. Running operation is slower but quite acceptable.
The main reason I wanted SSD was for vibration an shock immunity. Some of the machines we work on are huge and rattle your teeth.
@adamjarvis - Thanks for the thorough summary, very interesting. I strongly agree with your statement "not worth much - so don't have to worry about it". It is amazing how much more comfortable I am traveling with a 350 franc netbook than a 2,500 franc laptop.
@Tezzer - Thanks for the additional info. Shock immunity is one of my primary concerns as well, public transportation can get surprisingly bumpy here.
jw
As a matter of curiosity I've just completed a 'real life' test of battery life on my Eee PC 901.
I run the ubunto 8.10 based easy peasy, but instead of the gnome desktop, I run ROX desktop with openbox window manager.
First I gave the battery an all day charge, then left it overnight to 'settle'. This morning I plugged in an optical mouse and switched on. Gkrellm reported 96% charge, which seems reasonable. I had the screen set to a moderate brightness - clearly visible indoors. I also had wireless inactive (but can't seem to actually switch it off).
I then ran the machine as a music player - ogg vobis of course :) while doing just enough occasional mouse work to stop the screen going into standby. After an hour or so I decided to plug in the wired network and check for software updates, installing a handful. I also ran firefox for a few minutes. Through the entire session gkrellm was reporting a fairly steady 45% CPU usage.
Gkrellm showed an uptime of 4 hours as the battery dropped to about 2%. When gkrellm showed the battery level dropping to 0% the computer ran for a about another minute before unceremoniously shutting down.
How do netbooks - by which I mean the cheapest ones with flash memory - stand up as web servers?
I have a website - it has maybe a couple of thousand page requests a day, and very little graphics. It's currently hosted on a shared server. Do you reckon I could host it on a netbook with apache/php installed?
If i'm having the site hosted at home, it needs to be on a low power and SILENT computer. Do you reckon the screens can be switched off?
I bought an HP 1115NR a couple of weeks ago. Atom processor 1.6g, 16 gig SSD, built in web cam, sd card slot, wired ethernet port, 2 USB ports, and I plugged in a 16 gig flash drive. I have a external DVD/CD burner-player, and the first thing I did was remove XP. Very slow boot. Put Mandriva 2009 on it and the boot time is just over 30 seconds. I downloaded Moblin and plan on trying it out when it gets out of Beta. I use it mainly for its size. I can hold it in one hand, or set it on my knee. The wireless is excellent, sound is tinny, but all apps load very fast. I don't do a lot of games so the screen size doesn't mean that much to me. I do us a USB mouse though, can't stand those touch pads. I wanted to try out the SSD, as I think this is going to be a very big part of the future, for storage. I checked the battery life and had it running for 4.5 hours before recharging.
