Jamie's Random Musings
Various thoughts and adventures, including but not limited to Linux, Windows XP and Widows Vista, and assorted bits of hardware new and old.
Thursday 28 May 2009, 8:19 AM
Linux Mint 7 "Gloria" - It Just Keeps Getting Better
As I mentioned in my previous post, this Mint release is based on Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope). That in itself brings along a lot of updates, new package releases and bug fixes. As I have been asked about this several times recently, I will mention here that Linux Mint 7 comes with OpenOffice.org 3.0.1.
Beyond the Ubuntu updates, though, the big news in this release is what has happened to Linux Mint itself. It has gotten even better - it is obvious that a lot of thought and a lot of hard work have gone into this release, it is not just the standard Ubuntu distribution with a few bells and whistles thrown in the box. The differences are obvious right from the beginning - Linux Mint uses the gfxboot version of grub (the bootloader), and includes a nice graphic background for the boot sequence.
Once the boot is complete and Mint is running, you'll see that the default screen layout is different from Ubuntu - there is only one system panel, at the bottom of the screen, rather than two at the top and bottom. That seems like a small thing when you are familiar with Linux desktops, and experienced users are likely to be customizing their desktop anyway, but I have heard many times from inexperienced users, and users switching to Linux from Windows, that they find the two panels confusing, and this one-panel setup seems more "natural" for them.
The menus are also quite different in Mint from Ubuntu. Again, it seems to me that they have put quite a bit of thought into them, and what they have come up with is a sort of a combination of the standard Ubuntu (Gnome) hierarchical menus, and the SuSE-style "Favorites" layout. Both have their advantages, and it's nice to be able to switch easily between the two views.
Mint also includes a lot of its own utilities to supplement the standard Linux and Ubuntu versions. One good example of this is mintUpdate, which provides a very nice, easy interface and notification system for tracking and installing updates. There is an icon in the panel which looks like a padlock, and conveys a lot of information about the state of updates in a glance - whether the package database is locked or not, whether the system is up to date or there are updates available (and if so, how many), and a special "broken padlock" icon to show that there is no network connection, so it doesn't know the current update status. I have often grumbled about the fact that Ubuntu only displays an icon when updates are available, so if there is no icon, I find myself wondering whether there are none, or perhaps the update manager hasn't gotten around to checking yet. I don't have that uncertainty with the mintUpdate icon.
Another notable place where Mint differs from the Ubuntu philosophy is the "su"/"sudo" commands. Ubuntu doesn't like for you to simply "su" to be root, they want you to use "sudo" for each individual root command. There are good reasons for that, but it still creates a good bit of grousing in the user community. (Yes, I know you can "sudo" a shell, but that is not the point.) Mint not only keeps the "sudo" functionality, but it also uses the default user password given during the installation process to the root account, so you can just "su" to root, if that is your preference.
As I said in my previous post about Linux Mint 6, one of the biggest advantages of Linux Mint is that it includes a lot of good packages that you might otherwise end up adding individually yourself, so it saves you time and work. There is another Mint utility which further simplifies this as well, mintInstall. It provides a higher-level view of packages, with descriptions, icon views of applications windows, links to more information and the package home web page, and review/comments from other users. As such it not only provides a much simpler interface for package management, it also gives you an easy way to browse the available packages, and find things that might be interesting to you, which is something that I have found to be difficult to do with Synaptic.
There are other Mint utilities, such as mintBackup and mintNanny, but the bottom line is, if you are looking for a solid Linux distribution, you can't do better than Ubuntu, and if you want it to be better packaged and easier to use, then Linux Mint is definitely worth a look.
jw 28/5/2009
PreviousComments on this post
You can check Ubuntu's update status at any time, and see a list of whatever updates await your authorization...
System > Administration > Update Manager
Ubuntu's "Add/Remove Application" feature provides detailed software descriptions, including a link to the application's home website for further info, plus pretty icons...
Applications > Add/Remove
GnoMenu is a SuSE-style consolidated menu for GNOME...
http://tinyurl.com/r8aeyo
:)
@Telic - Of course I knew how to check for Ubuntu updates, but the point is that with mintUpdate I don't have to slog through the menus to get to the Update Manager, the information is right in front of me. Others may prefer not to give up the space for one more icon on the panel, but I prefer to know what is going on at a glance.
Likewise, Ubuntu's Add/Remove Application is adequate, I simply find mintInstall easier to use, with a more pleasing appearance.
I didn't intend for my post to imply that Ubuntu was "lacking" in any way, or "not good enough" - in fact, although I have both Ubuntu and Mint loaded on all of my systems, I generally still prefer to use Ubuntu myself. The point of my post was that for a lot of users who don't want to slog through a lot of menus to find something, or through a nearly endless list of applications, or to find, download, install and customise a menu system, Linux Mint has done an excellent job of taking Ubuntu and making it even more "user friendly".
jw
I know that previous versions of mint were noticeably faster than their ubuntu counterparts. Is this still true of the latest version? I've found 9.04 gives a big speed improvement over 8.10.
@J.A. Watson:
So, GUI menus are a "slog" now? There's always the CLI. ;-)
You can add Update Manager as an icon on your Ubuntu panel: Right-click the panel, select "Add to panel", then "Application Launcher", and then navigate to Update Manager. Voila.
I first tried Mint 2.2 and found that the panel is broken: I prefer to make the panel background completely transparent. With Ubuntu the panel applet backgrounds also become transparent, as they should. With Mint the applet backgrounds remain the opaque panel colour. This Mint bug hasn't been fixed (there's a hack work-around, but it introduces other problems).
To see this Mint glitch in action, right-click the panel, select "Properties", then the "Background" tab, then select "Solid colour" and drag the "Style" slider all the way to the left for full transparency. You'll see that the panel background becomes transparent, but all the applets (and windows list area) continue to have the solid panel background colour. Follow the same procedure with Ubuntu to see the difference. For me, this is an unacceptable Mint eyesore.
Not that I'm saying Mint is otherwise "lacking."
;-)
@paradox - I don't notice any significant difference in speed between Mint 7 and Ubuntu 9.04, on any of my systems. I haven't looked at this carefully, and I haven't done any specific testing for it, that is just my general impression.
@Telic - I use the CLI (Command Line Interface) extensively, as I have on Unix systems for more than 25 years. That doesn't mean that I would recommend it to the average PC user. Yes, I think that having to go through three or four menu levels is a "slog", compared to having the useful information immediately available on the panel. That is also the difference between having the mintUpdate icon and the Update Manager icon on the panel, by the way - although the Update Manager icon removes the need to navigate the menus, it in itself conveys no useful information, while the mintUpdate icon does.
Concerning panel background, I tried it as you suggested, and you are absolutely right. If that is your decision criteria for choosing a Linux distribution, that's fine. As I have mentioned before, I still use Ubuntu more often than Mint for my everyday use, but my decision is based on the fact that Ubuntu development is always slightly ahead of Mint, and in addition to whatever the current release is, I generally also have the latest Ubuntu Alpha/Beta/RC loaded on one or more of my systems. However, I don't delude myself into thinking that many experienced Linux users read my blog and get useful information from it - but I hope that beginning and intermediate users do, and I particularly hope that users who are considering trying Linux as an alternative to Windows do, and I know from personal contact and email that a fair number of them do. I want to make those users aware of the easiest, "friendliest", distributions, and while Ubuntu certainly fits in that category, in my opionion Linux Mint is even higher on that list. My experience with people for whom I have installed and/or maintained Linux systems had shown that to be the case as well.
jw
I have to agree with you Jamie - Mint 7 is very nice indeed. It does everything I want it to do out of the box. Good enough nearly to stop looking at other distros for the desktop. I especially like the Control Centre, where all the settings are accessible for system software and hardware from one window. If only the hardware tools were as good as Mandrivas...
Colin
@aireworth:
Ubuntu also has a unified "Control Centre", you just need to enable it in the menu system. Here's a 4-step HowTo:
1) invoke "System > Preferences > Main Menu"
2) click "System" (not "System Tools") on the left-hand list.
3) select (check-box) "Control Centre" in the centre list.
4) close the "Main Menu" program.
Now, you'll find "Control Centre" under the main "System" menu (along with "Preferences" and "Administration".)
Yikes, I see that Linux Mint 7 preloads Firefox with the Moonlight plugin, a presumptuous endorsement of Microsoft Silverlight.
I run screaming into the night...
;-)
@telic
But the whole point of Mint is that you don't have to enable things - everything you're likely to need is set up and ready to go (including Moonlight :-) )
Shall I tell you how to disable it in Mint?
Colin
@aireworth:
In terms of functionality, Ubuntu has everything the mainstream PC end-user is likely to need, set up and ready to go or installed automagically on the fly -- except potential sucker-punches from intellectual property that's a bedfellow to litigious crooks like Microsoft, whose code-space is particularly malware prone.
The point of making a long list of features optional is that there's no need for everyone to opt-out of the (questionable) ones that they don't need (or care) to have active.
@telic
We're not going to agree on this, are we?
You are absolutely right about what Ubuntu gives us. But I know that I want a new install to be able to open pdfs and flash and video without searching for codecs and installing them - and with Mint that's what I get. I also get the point about my actions possibly encouraging the uptake of a potentially patent encumbered technology like Mono which might just turn round and bite us - but you can throw that ball at me all night - I'm not going to catch it. I want the functionality Mint brings, and I'm happy to leave Google and IBM and their like to make sure Microsoft never gets another gatekeeper technology. I think they'll do a better job than either of us.
I think there are five things that windows users find difficult when they move to Linux
1- Where are my files? - /etc, /opt /usr are a mystery to them and /usr/local/var/etc/adnauseum/ - what's that all about
2- Where are my programs? The frustration of having done all the apt-get install only then not to be able to find the program installed, far less launch it still make me shudder.
3- What's with permissions? It seems ironic that Linux advocates promote it as bringing freedom to the computer when, once installed you can't even open a directory because you don't have permission - its my computer, of course I should have permission!
4- Where's the hardware? Too many distros have System settings which go as far as the settings in Gnome or KDE - not what you want when you're trying to setup wireless networking.
5- Why are all those people who wanted me to use Linux now putting me down because I'm using Linux? There's still a bit too much condescension and "political correctness" from some on what's the "right way" to use Linux.
I think Mint has solved three and a half of the first four of these problems, and is working towards solving all four. Sadly it can't solve the fifth. We all have to do our bit on that one.
Colin
@aireworth:
Ubuntu has the Evince document viewer, which handles PDFs transparently. Firefox on Ubuntu offers to install either Adobe Flash or open-source Gnash, when you first encounter any webpage that needs it. Similarly, the first time you click on a multimedia file, Ubuntu offers to download and install all necessary video and audio codecs, which you are allowed to explicitly authorize (opt-in).
No need for manual hunt and peck for any of this, it's automated, accessing online repositories, with end-user approval.
Microsoft is supplying codecs for Moonlight. These codecs are binary modules, i.e. black boxes of MS code. You may savour Microsoft's Internet interface incompetence, but Linux newbies aren't likely to understand that Mint quietly grants MS (thus their adversaries) a backdoor into an otherwise malware-free OS.
Ubuntu doesn't demand user knowledge of the file-system as seen by the CLI. The GNOME file manager (Nautilus) provides a GUI interface to folders with familiar names like Documents, Pictures, Videos, and Music. Linux application programs handle their files in the same menu-oriented manner as their Windows counterparts.
HP has "disabled" the CLI on their Ubuntu-based Mini 1000-Mi netbook, proof that your apt-get phobia is needless scare-mongering (or your sincere cluelessness?).
Too many of your assertions here amount to FUD for the uninformed. That's the "wrong way" to use Linux.
I agree with aireworth. Unfortunately, the course and tone of this discussion is a perfect illustration of why Linux frequently runs into resistance. First, people are confronted with a wide array of Linux distributions to choose from. Fine, so much the better for choice. But then, having made a choice, they suddenly find themselves being unnecessarily criticized over the version that they chose, most likely because of some hidden agenda or misguided sense of "political correctness" (i.e. FOSS purity).
No one here is saying, in any way, that Ubuntu is insufficient, inadequate or otherwise unacceptable. I have said several times that I use it myself. However, other people have put a lot of hard work into building something ON TOP OF Ubuntu, not replacing it, and they made some choices about how and what to include in that distribution. A lot of other people agree with and appreciate those choices, and prefer to use such a distribution. So much the better for choice.
What we don't need is someone to tell us that Ubuntu is the do-all and end-all of Linux distributions, and it will "automagically" load and configure everything the other distribution includes - especially if "automagically" turns out to be clicking through several layers of menus, then right-clicking and choosing "add to panel", or setting a check-box, or whatever. The only thing "magic" about that is trying to acquire the knowledge of where to find it and how to do it.
Likewise, I'm not interested in hearing that the "fatal flaw" in Linux Mint is that you can't do something that one hundredth of one percent of users might ever want to do. It's just not relevant.
If you like Ubuntu, and you prefer to use it, and you never want to have to look at any other distribution again, that's fine. Good for you. But other people have other preferences and other priorities, please try to respect that. Alternatively, if your agenda is simply to convince everyone here about how much you know about Ubuntu, and how much you can do with it, fine, we collectively surrender to your technical superiority, and are willing to acknowledge that in advance if it will save us from having to read over and over and over again about how to reconfigure Ubuntu to match or exceed whatever anyone else has done.
jw
@J.A. Watson:
Good grief, Jamie, most everything I've boasted here also applies to Mandriva One 2009, which I use as an alternative to Ubuntu.
Of course, you're free to side with anyone who shares your antsy fetishes -- but you fail to recognize that my responses are simply antidotes to the misinformation that aireworth has posted about the need for CLI labour and nerdy expertise for use of Ubuntu.
Fact is, Mint too quietly puts Linux newbies at the mercy of US patent law and MS malware.
Also, it appears that you haven't fully weaned off of the Microsoft mindset that breeds end-users who cannot engage a competitive spirit.
;-)
Tone tone and direction of this comment thread has become entirely unacceptable. I am finished with it. Good luck.
You are completely right Jamie. Abraham Lincoln once said: "Sometimes it is better to remain silent and have people think you a fool than to speak and remove any doubt".
The GNOME menu system needn't be spoken of as a tangled jungle that needs slogging with a machete. It's simple, logical, and pleasingly configurable.
I'm no FOSS purist, but I believe that users of free Linux need to be advised that they take personal responsibility for their use of patented or proprietary code. Allowing end-users to be forewarned, Ubuntu (and Mandriva) obtains their approval, then automates the installation. Mint serves an entirely clueless sense of entitlement.
Linux users should also be alerted to how Moonlight injects closed-source Microsoft code between the OS and Internet, via Firefox. This is a gaping wound just waiting to be infected. Any Linux distro that preloads Moonlight (as Mint does) should also preload an antivirus scanner and a fire wall. I'd choose BitDefender and FireStarter...
http://bit.ly/2IMYFN
http://www.fs-security.com/
Ive done over 100 conversions/installs at Lugfests and on my own and having given people the choice of gNOME and KDE, I finally stopped because 8 out of 10 people (ex Windows users of course) that I would give a choice would choose KDE.
One of the biggest reasons? It looks a lot like WIndows.
Close second? They are freaked out by the top and bottom bar (even though in Win XP you can just drag the menu bar to four sides) and with the text at top.
Yes, most Linux users change the default settings (i HATE the default KDE windows look and prefer the Keramik look for people with bad eyes because the corner buttons can be made to be big and thick) but switching over people you want them to feel at ease.
Cool Joe Linux User might scoff at this but its the reality of average Joe user who surfs, emails and watches youtube and porn (dont act innocent. I worked for a mom and pop store doing some tech work while in school... porn is a constant).
And even though I wouldnt want to use Gnome unless I had to, Mint does to Ubuntu what the rock solid PCLinuxOS (my go-to distro for newbies) does for the equally fine Mandriva and what Ubuntu does to Debian.
If you dont like what Mint does with Ubuntu, then that makes you a hypocrite.
To be honest, the differences between distros wth the same desktop is usually minimal but its their time and their dime.
But just having something more than the depressing DOS like Ubuntu boot option has to be considered a step up for 'user friendliness'.
I had someone tell me they didnt want Kubuntu on their netbook because every time if would come out of sleep mode it would flash a text message for about 3-4 seconds about "killing" some process and "dead" something else. I had seen it hundreds of times and never noticed it before and now Im wondering how a 'user friendly' distro would miss something like this.
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