Jamie's Random Musings
Various thoughts and adventures, including but not limited to Linux, Windows XP and Widows Vista, and assorted bits of hardware new and old.
Wednesday 29 July 2009, 2:53 PM
Struggling With the Vistaster Disaster
Before I go on, let me say that this is UNIQUELY a Windows disaster. I can install any one of a variety of Linux distributions on the N10J at any time that I want, and be done in well under an hour. I've probably spent in excess of 12 hours over the last two days trying to get EITHER Vistaster OR XP Professional to reinstall, with extremely limited success.
The N10J had come with the disk set up in three partitions, the first was a 10 GB RECOVERY partition, the second was a 130 GB Vistaster partition, and the third was a 100 GB Data partition. I had deleted the data partition, created a 4 GB Primary for Linux Swap, and then an Extended partition for the rest, with Logical partitions within it for the various Linux distributions I loaded. That all worked just fine, and it was multi-booting Vistaster and the Linuxes perfectly.
Then, as a test before doing something on a friends' computer, I had used gparted to reduce the size of the Vistaster partition. That also worked just fine. But that left a large, unused hole on the disk, so I decided to just reload everything and get it the way that I wanted it. I guess that was a big mistake...
First, I wiped all of the partitions except RESTORE, then tried to boot and restore from there. It booted, but the restore failed, saying that it couldn't find some file on C:... Well, DUH, why would it be trying to look there, when that is what I was restoring? Beats me.
Then I used the XP Restore DVD to load XP, and chose the "restore to entire disk" option (the others were "restore to first parition" and "restore to two partitions"). For some reason it didn't restore the boot loader, so when it was all done it was still trying to boot with GRUB, which of course didn't work because the Linux partitions were gone. No sweat, I set up a Linux partition and loaded Ubuntu quickly, which saw the XP partition and put it in the boot menu... I told it to boot that, and it failed. Some sort of boot loader failure message. Sigh.
So I then tried to restore from the Vistaster DVD, this time to the "first partition". Once again it seemed to work, but didn't restore the boot loaded, so it tried to boot GRUB again. I did the same again, but told it to restore to the entire disk. This time it actually did work, and it booted Vistaster. But there is a long, involved process of loading the proper drivers and then configuring the "Out of Box Experience", which I absolutely can't understand the sequence or timing of. It involved something like five or six reboots, and at the end of it all the screen is still on configured properly. Further investigation showed that despite all the thrashing and rebooting, the nVidia display driver wasn't loaded, and it refused to set the display for more than 800x600 resolution.
One more run with the Vistaster DVD, this time restore to two partitions. This one seemed to work, even the screen was correct, and the nVidia driver was loaded. But the disk partitioning was odd, to say the least, with 1 GB totally unused at the beginning (perhaps this is the Vista loader?). I tried to rearrange that with gparted, and the whole thing became unbootable again. Sigh.
I went through what I thought was the exact same procedure with the Vistaster DVD... but this time the display was wrong again! Why the heck can two seemingly identical restores produce different results???
So, I am still struggling with it. The Vistaster restore is running, again, as I type this. Eventually I will give up and just load the N10J with nothing but Linux, and I'll be happy.
I recall writing a recent blog post about loading Ubuntu for a friend, and someone posted a comment saying that the problem with Linux was that you always had to have an "expert" load it. Well, to that I now say "BAH! HUMBUG!". Loading Windows on this N10J is a thousand times more difficult, complicated and unpredictable than loading Linux on it, or any of the other computers I have around here for that matter.
jw 29/7/2009
PreviousComments on this post
Update: Ok, it looks like I have it figured out. I just have to wait a long time for the installation process to complete. A really, really, really long time, even considering that this is Vistaster that we are talking about. And a lot of reboots. Really a lot of reboots. Until, finally, it shuts itself completely down and powers off. Of course, during all of this long wait, and thrashing about, and rebooting, there is no direct indication on the screen that it is actually still doing anything, or that you should continue to wait, and not shut down, reboot or whatever. So the reason the results were so inconsistent before was that I wasn't waiting long enough, so I was interrupting the restore/reconfigure at various different points.
Oh, and after all that waiting and rebooting, when you power on again you still have to go through the complete "normal" Vistaster initial installation and configuration procedure.
Anyway, at least now I can get the N10J to restore from the Vistaster DVD, and end up at essentially the factory-installed state.
jw
And the tedious process of having to install all of adobes gear. If it's a raw on the hardware install, I would recommend the k-lite codec pack so that everything works through Windows Media Player including .mov files and DVD playback, which is sadly not an out of the box expierience on XP and Vista.
On Vista and windows 7 you can partition disks on the fly by right clicking computer, choosing manage and then choosing disk mangment.
In fact if you can you are much better off using a raw OS install disk rather than a tainted manafactures one on your hardware, and then installing your drivers on top of that.
Running a repair from the install disk is a lot less painfull than having to resort to a recovery partition.
If you ever need to run a virtual repair install on windows whilst your computer remains on, then open a command line an type
sfc /scannow
Now how about some pain. SP1 and SP2!
Actually, my vista rig has been as good as gold since SP2.
Roger, Thanks, there are two excellent tips there that I was not onto. I will certainly install the k-lite codec; you are right about the tedious install of Adobe gear, both flash and acrobat reader have become quite a pain, and are increasingly irritating about checking for and installing updates. I also hadn't found the right-click path to disk management, I was still slogging through the Vistatster Control Panel to get there.
I absolutely agree, installing from an original Vistaster DVD would be a heck of a lot easier and less painful than dealing with these blasted ASUS recovery disks - unfortunately I don't have any such original disks. I can compare this to reloading my Fujitsu S6510, which also came with Recovery disks; while basically similar, the process is much easier, smoother and faster on the Fujitsu than it is on the ASUS. Even now that I know exactly how to do it, I am still stunned by how long it takes, and how tedious and confusing it is on the ASUS.
Ah yes, one other thing your comment reminded me to do - check what Vistaster updates are included in the Restore image. It is SP1, so now I suppose I should connect it to the internet and let it pick up SP2. Sigh.
All of this struggling with Vistaster has pushed aside the fact that I can't get the XP Recovery DVD to install anything useful at all. I've tried it several times, and every time it either doesn't boot at all, or it boots to a Windows Recovery console. If all else were equal, and I was actually going to use Windows on the ASUS, I would probably choose to install XP. But since it doesn't want to install, and Vistaster now seems to be installed and running, and considering your positive comments about Vistaster on your system(s), I think I'll just leave it with that. It won't hurt to have a Vistaster reference system around anyway.
Thanks again for your comments and excellent suggestions.
jw
It is an absolute shame that someone in Redmond has the say on how you spend your money! You should have the option of taking a computer as is, or taking it without an OS installed. Really burns me up to hear," we can't remove the OS because of our agreement with Microsoft." Well, I don't have an agreement with MS, and it is my money, so why do I have to pay for their product when I have no plans to use it? This is getting robbed
without showing a weapon, and should be illegal.
I absolutely agree with you, Ator. The only option at this time is not to buy a computer from OEMs and/or resellers who insist on selling only with Windows preinstalled. I actually feel a bit guilty about buying the N10J after what ASUS has done with/to Linux, but the price was just too good. So I salve my conscience a bit by writing the letter of protest to ASUS, and publicly discussing the problem. I doubt that there are enough people who feel strongly enough about this right now that their not buying from such suppliers would even be noticed, much less make a difference. But if there were to be a steady stream of such letters, informing those manufacturers of consumer's unhappiness and intent to not purchase their products, it might be noticed and make a difference over time.
"It is an absolute shame that someone in Redmond has the say on how you spend your money! You should have the option of taking a computer as is, or taking it without an OS installed. Really burns me up to hear," we can't remove the OS because of our agreement with Microsoft." Well, I don't have an agreement with MS, and it is my money, so why do I have to pay for their product when I have no plans to use it? This is getting robbed without showing a weapon, and should be illegal."
How is it someone in Redmond fault? Buy a different PC then, i went to Microcenter the other day and guess what, they sold a PC with Ubuntu on it, HP, Dell sells computers with different OS's on it. My cousin went to frys a few years ago and got a PC with Lindows on it. They are out there. It really burns me up for someone to blame a company when its not their fault. You do have the right to have the PC come without and OS, you can build it yourself. If you dont like what you get from the OEM's then you complain to them about it. if enough people complian then they will change their ways.
He didn't want just any PC, he wanted the N10J. If you have to buy a specific computer with an OS on it that you don't want, (that includes a Linux distro) you're paying off Microsoft.
The point of buying a brand name computer or one from a big OEM is to get service down the road. But if the OEMs want to insist on defining what the road is paved with regardless of what you want, Microsoft versus anything else, well you're just out of luck.
I don't know what planet you're from but the EU, the Department of Justice in the US and a number of US states in the last 3 to 4 years have determined to varying degrees that Microsoft has been doing massive amounts of restraint of trade with the OEMs at state, national and regional levels.
Right now if I call DELL and order a PC WITHOUT an OS already installed, I pay a premium price for that computer compared to their computers with Windows on them. Even if I find a DELL model that I want AND it can be delivered without an installed OS, I have to accept delivery of CD(s) with some sort of operating system. On top of that DELL refuses to sell some of their systems without Windows on them even if you are willing to accept a CD with FreeDOS on it.
The reason DELL forces you to buy Windows is because Microsoft forces DELL to sell all of their computers with an OS, any OS. It used to be Windows only. DELL doesn't want to have to support more than one OS. They are trying to cut their costs since they are paying monopolistic prices for Windows. The same deal is in play at HP.
You want proof, call DELL or HP and try to buy a computer without ANY OS.Tell them you do not want any OS, not installed, not on CD etc. They will NOT sell you a computer.
Don't want to call them? Get on their US website. I do not know if it plays the same way in Europe or not.
Everyone in the world that buys a computer is paying off Microsoft to some degree or other.
@NoThomas: It would be nice if the situation were that simple, or that straightforward. Unfortunately, it is not. First, we have all read about Microsoft pressuring OEMs, large and small, to sell only Windows, or to pay a Windows license fee for every PC they sell. Second, the license agreement should at the very least be fair - if I don't agree with it, I should be able to remove Windows from the PC, get a refund of the license cost, and do whatever else I want with the PC.
When I buy a computer, I am primarily concerned with the hardware, not the operating system. I want to be able to make a free choice of what operating system(s) to run on it. I don't want to be forced to pay for an operating system that I don't want or need and that I will not use, just because I like the underlying hardware. The ASUS N10J is an excellent example of that - I love the netbook, I think it is well designed and well built, but I absolutely don't want Vistaster, or any other version of Windows on it. I don't want to be limited to a very few configurations that are offered specifically with Linux, and although I am quite capable of assembling a computer myself (I did exactly that with the one I am typing on right now), I don't want to have to do that every time, just so that I can load the operating system of my choice, or to avoid the Microsoft Tax.
However, in addition to Micosoft's pressure tactics, it is also true that OEMs are in large part reacting to market demand, and the market at the moment is still largely looking for Windows. That is why I have said that at this point, the best thing we can do is to make our preferences known, write to the OEMs and tell them that we resent having Windows forced on us, and we want to have a choice.
jw
