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The best servers are those that don't appear to be servers at all.
Saturday 3 October 2009, 5:22 PM
Real World OS Compatability Problems
For a customer's installation, we needed to buy a new rack mount server to replace a failed system. At first I was told that our newest software based on Java would be running on it. No problem. Just get Windows Server 2008 R2 since the server was coming from DELL. DELL recommends Windows (even when the customer doesn't want it). Actually Windows XP Pro SP3 would have sufficed. The new server would be replacing a previous 1U server that had been running Windows XP for nearly 6 years when it finally cratered. That's a phenomenal length of time for oilfield computer equipment.
I was mis-informed. The customer reports that they are using really old legacy stuff based on VB 5 & 6. Oh yuck. And that generates a problem. Turns out old VB5 & 6 software running old unsigned Active X components will not run on Server 2008 (“Visaster” server without the eye-candy). Not in WoW. Not in ntvdm. Not at all. I had message boxes popping out all over the place. I had to try to make it work. I was amazed that Server 2008 would actually let me install the software in the first place since the installer program was from the same era.
This is one of those situations where using a virtual machine could solve a problem caused by an incompatible operating system. I was tempted but I didn't bite the apple. This particular server system will be located on a drilling rig off-shore who-knows-where. The techs on the rig are fairly astute and have handled complex computer issues before. But asking them to learn a new technology just because the current OS cannot run what the old OS could is too much.
The system got “downgraded” to Server 2003 (XP Pro-like) and everything not only installed but ran without complaint. Since the system will be running behind at least 3 layers of managed routers and is on a private VPN supported intra-net it should be fine, I hope.
That kind of trade-off happens in the real-world. Microsoft knows that happens. You can't force your customers to upgrade their systems if they like what they have running. What would be wrong offering for sale old Windows operating systems with absolutely no warranty? If you read the current EULA you're not getting anything anyway from Microsoft even on the latest iterations or builds of Windows. As far as tech support goes, we don't even bother to call MS since it takes practically a “verbal hurricane” to elevate their attention.
What is wrong with selling old versions of their OS is that the old operating systems have so many ways to be compromised that botnets would be even worse than they are now. So in this instance I have to agree with Microsoft. Don't sell or install the old stuff but sometimes you don't have a choice.
I feel uneasy delivering something I know is broken and has been cracked by malware malcontents hundreds of times. When you “own” the operating system instead of just “leasing” it, you can better control the effects obsolescence, planned or otherwise, has on your corporate bottom line. I would have much more preferred to have installed a Linux based server for that very reason.
(endorsement) As to DELL tech support, I was pleasantly surprised. It took wading through about 6 or 7 phone voice menus but I did get some help. It turns out the Raid driver required was on a third disk. Quick and easy fix. (/endorsement)
PreviousComments on this post
Visual Basic 3, 4 and 5 are officially not supported for Windows 7 and Server 2008 but can be "made" to work. However, you really want to get rid of these components soon. In addition, word from Redmond is that VB6 runtime and development components will not be supported on Windows 8. The time to clean-up these apps is now.
First off I agree that I could have spent more time modifying system permissions, application compatibility wrappers etc and gotten it to "work". The problem is that in itself, the installation then becomes even more of a "one-of-a-kind" custom install, much worse then it is now. Most of our installs run on desktop software because it doesn't need server OS software to operate. Our field techs can handle desktop installations but haven't a clue what to do when they come across a server install.
This is a system as delivered that will generate a service call that will immediately get elevated to me once whoever ends up doing the install gets to the rig and finds the server. That's guaranteed, without any doubts. I just hope I'm not sleeping when that happens.
Trying to talk someone through any service procedure for a custom installation is tough. Its more than likely not accessible remotely through a network connection I can log onto. Most of our customers operate extremely tightly secured networks that our equipment ends up operating on. I can count on one hand the numbers of time I've been allowed to do that in the last 15 years.
On top of all that, we actually don't sell that software any more. An argument can be made, and believe me we have, to stop supporting the old stuff. The issue is that this is a very vertical market with relatively few customers. If the customer wants to continue to run the old stuff you let him. You have to keep him "happy" until you can sell him the upgraded new system.
As I guess I should have indicated, the compromises made are real world and not on Microsoft's agenda. Vertical markets do not match-up with what happens with the typical home or office end-user market. Microsoft has decided to let the vertical businesses slide outside their grasp.
I have been in exactly the same situation, repeatedly, many times in the past few years. It is the way the real world, of real business works. I am absolutely certain that XWJ knows as well as anyone, and better than most, that those applications "should" be updated or replaced. But as far as the customer is concerned they work, and in many such cases trying to convince that customer to pay for an upgrade is a complete waste of time. It is easy to sit on the outside and say "the time to clean-up those apps is now", but when the customer says no, what are you supposed to do? Just say "too bad, then", and walk away? How many times can you do that before you have "walked" yourself right out of business? I can guarantee you that it is tremendously frustrating to watch Microsoft just toss their old versions overboard, and say "upgrade or die" to their customers, when we are left holding the bag.
jw
Most of our customers believe in the motto 'If it costs money don't fix it'. We are expected to jump through all sorts of hoops to keep old systems running. In fact we are still supporting DOS on some stuff - which is getting interesting as there are only two of us left that really know our way round DOS!
